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SRT is DEAD!

Slowpoke387

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#81
Do you really think SRT is going anywhere or are they just REBRANDING and making us buy the next revision of SRT?
Yep. And not really.
Blame it on emissions regulations and Stellanis having a different vision of muscle. I think they are thinking SRT is a strong fossil fuel brand that may not translate well into EV’s and it’s time to create something new with the EV’s. Dispersing the team speaks volumes.
 


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#82
Yep. And not really.
Blame it on emissions regulations and Stellanis having a different vision of muscle. I think they are thinking SRT is a strong fossil fuel brand that may not translate well into EV’s and it’s time to create something new with the EV’s. Dispersing the team speaks volumes.
Well said. I'd also add that this is definitely not a Stellantis-only situation. I'd say it's likely that most, if not all, global car brands are now looking at future performance through the EV lens.
 


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#83
Well the biggest problem seems to be Dodge, Mercedes, RAM, SRT, FCA, Stellanis, whatever its called this week make poor business decisions. Why else would they (Dodge) be owned by European corporations.
 


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#84
Chrysler missed out on the whole '80's resurgence of muscle cars that lead to what we have today. Ford and Chevy cranked out their V8 Mustangs, and Camaros by the millions, and Chrysler messed around until 2008 without any type of serious muscle car. After my Cuda got totaled in '88, I looked around for a modern muscle car to buy from Chrysler and they had none. I was already familiar with the 5.0 Mustangs and the IROC Camaros of the day....cuz they were everywhere....and my wife had owned an '83 5.0 and had an '87 5.0 at the time. Since Chrysler had nothing to offer, I went to Ford and owned a bunch of 5.0 Fords well up into the mid 2000's.

I would be amazed if Chrysler doesn't mess around going the economy car EV route once again, and walks away from the performance car market, no matter what that looks like in a few years.

.02
 


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#85
Well the biggest problem seems to be Dodge, Mercedes, RAM, SRT, FCA, Stellanis, whatever its called this week make poor business decisions. Why else would they (Dodge) be owned by European corporations.
It's about the corporate upper class. Think the executives give a shit about the company? They don't - I worked with many of them. They want to be able to carve out the biggest pay check for themselves with the least accountability. And the supposed safeguard of the Board of Directors is a bunch of bunk because they are all interlocked. They'll whitewash anything; once you reach the C level or above, you're part of the club. But, when the shit hits the fan and the company is about to collapse, it's time for the tax payers / government to step in and bail everything out. But not before ruining the pension funds (by breaking them with court approval) but yet still paying out all the top executive bonuses and golden parachutes. No one makes American corporations move all their manufacturing overseas (or to Mexico); they beat a path to that door. If the Soviets had been smart enough to realize you can give economic freedom to make money to people but still keep tight non-democratic political control we'd all be buying things made in Russia today. Corporate leadership is a racket, and I have personally seen things I consider undemocratic and quasi-illegal to skirt campaign finance laws at some of the biggest corporations in the country.

But I digress. In short, I'm not surprised Dodge finds itself hostage to non-American global corporations in the slightest.
 


1971demon

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#86
Not me, I know Zaibatsu... suimasin, Hayabusa-sama. I'll refrain from displaying other incredibly offensive japanese I still retain.
Where ya keepin em....in yer basement??:giggle::giggle:
 


72 440 Barracuda

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#87
It's about the corporate upper class. Think the executives give a shit about the company? They don't - I worked with many of them. They want to be able to carve out the biggest pay check for themselves with the least accountability. And the supposed safeguard of the Board of Directors is a bunch of bunk because they are all interlocked. They'll whitewash anything; once you reach the C level or above, you're part of the club. But, when the shit hits the fan and the company is about to collapse, it's time for the tax payers / government to step in and bail everything out. But not before ruining the pension funds (by breaking them with court approval) but yet still paying out all the top executive bonuses and golden parachutes. No one makes American corporations move all their manufacturing overseas (or to Mexico); they beat a path to that door. If the Soviets had been smart enough to realize you can give economic freedom to make money to people but still keep tight non-democratic political control we'd all be buying things made in Russia today. Corporate leadership is a racket, and I have personally seen things I consider undemocratic and quasi-illegal to skirt campaign finance laws at some of the biggest corporations in the country.

But I digress. In short, I'm not surprised Dodge finds itself hostage to non-American global corporations in the slightest.
Unfortunately I have seen much of the same where I worked. After 31 years of working for a company the China virus came along and I was able to retire a little early - so I did. A large part of the reason was dealing with decisions "management" had made. Moving work where ever they could to increase their bottom line, decisions which were gutting and destroying the company from the inside out. Also impacting my decision was watching what other companies had done to their retiree's pensions (put enough zeros behind a number in the pension fund and someone will figure out how to get access to it) made me very nervous about all I had worked for and the time I had invested. Would I have anything when it came time to retire?
The company (the corporate "leadership") I worked for obviously didnt care about the employees, they cared about their bottom line and what was in it for them. I opted to cash out - taking the money and investing it made it my responsibility, but now I no longer have ties to the company via their pension fund. If I die tomorrow at least my family will still reap the benefits of those 31 years...
 


Stormtrooper1320

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#88
Unfortunately I have seen much of the same where I worked. After 31 years of working for a company the China virus came along and I was able to retire a little early - so I did. A large part of the reason was dealing with decisions "management" had made. Moving work where ever they could to increase their bottom line, decisions which were gutting and destroying the company from the inside out. Also impacting my decision was watching what other companies had done to their retiree's pensions (put enough zeros behind a number in the pension fund and someone will figure out how to get access to it) made me very nervous about all I had worked for and the time I had invested. Would I have anything when it came time to retire?
The company (the corporate "leadership") I worked for obviously didnt care about the employees, they cared about their bottom line and what was in it for them. I opted to cash out - taking the money and investing it made it my responsibility, but now I no longer have ties to the company via their pension fund. If I die tomorrow at least my family will still reap the benefits of those 31 years...
Yep....I see the same things in my company. I need to make it 7 more years, and then I plan to cash out also for the reasons you mention above. I'm not leaving them in control of my pension money, and I damn sure ain't letting them keep it when I die.
 


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#89
Not me, I know Zaibatsu... suimasin, Hayabusa-sama. I'll refrain from displaying other incredibly offensive japanese I still retain.
Where ya keepin em....in yer basement??:giggle::giggle:
Took me a quick second but it is quite funny, 1971demon! The power of language and interpretation!
Are they on retainer like consultants or retained like restrained in Pulp Fiction?
1971demon...you so crazy!
 


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#90
Im curious if GM really does drop the ZR1 with a twin turbo V8 making 850hp on pump gas.
Right now its the rumor with the hybrid Zora aiming for 1000hp

Thats the end of the big ICE line. Curious to see if Ford or Dodge will drop something to compete with it. Everyone knows its coming and will be a purchase of mine as long as it isn't 200k.
 


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#91
Im curious if GM really does drop the ZR1 with a twin turbo V8 making 850hp on pump gas.
Right now its the rumor with the hybrid Zora aiming for 1000hp

Thats the end of the big ICE line. Curious to see if Ford or Dodge will drop something to compete with it. Everyone knows its coming and will be a purchase of mine as long as it isn't 200k.
All about timing would be my guess. If plans are 90% there and on "autopilot" (not literally, lol) then maybe. If it was in the planning stage, my guess is the hybrid version continues and all ICE won't. The hybrid 1000hp version is more powerful and more importantly, represents the future of automotive high performance. In comparison, ICE is caveman/backward-looking and might be "frowned upon" as a waste of precious resources.
 


Slowpoke387

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#92
All about timing would be my guess. If plans are 90% there and on "autopilot" (not literally, lol) then maybe. If it was in the planning stage, my guess is the hybrid version continues and all ICE won't. The hybrid 1000hp version is more powerful and more importantly, represents the future of automotive high performance. In comparison, ICE is caveman/backward-looking and might be "frowned upon" as a waste of precious resources.
But there's still money to be made from the old R&D before ICE's are actually forced out. R&D has been done, profit margin should be higher now at the tail end. Theyre not leaving that on the table. I'm sure the hybrid is next and already well developed behind the curtain but not introduced until theyre forced. I think theyre going to suck up all that free ICE money on the way until regulations actually stop it.
 


Matt someone with an SRT

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#93
1000hp Vette is gonna be 3 things I think.. one it’ll probably be limited and sell out pretty fast.. two it’s gonna be probably 150++K once you tack on some decent options. Well above what a normal somewhat wealthy individual is will to pay. I mean the Z06 will probably be 100k.. They won’t sell any of those the first year for less than 10k markup unless your on the INS at some dealership.. Third 1000hp Vette is gonna be way more than what most owners could handle. I’d imagine this as a Drag Car. That’s way to much excessive power for a road course. Given the Vette is 1000 pounds lighter than our hellcats.. i personally like the idea of all these other versions the PHEV, Z06 and ZR1. The Zora is some next lvl sh*t for sure. But it just seems like completely unnecessary for a street car.. unless there integrating 4 wheel drive.. or the electric motors will favor the front wheels.. all I know is for someone throwing down that kind of $$$$$$ for a Zora if it happens better have the right foot of a god or you’ll be getting in serious trouble within mere seconds. I mean you already hit the gas In our hellcats for 4-5 seconds from 80 and your doing 120+.. the Zora you’ll be getting to like 150 in the same amount of time.. so you better know what the heck your doing and pick spots wisely Even trying to use 80 percent of this things potential on the street for a few seconds may result in serious consequences with either the law or your life.. interesting prospect though, I can see they’re trying to compete with like the Tesla roadster or something..
 


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#94
But there's still money to be made from the old R&D before ICE's are actually forced out. R&D has been done, profit margin should be higher now at the tail end. Theyre not leaving that on the table. I'm sure the hybrid is next and already well developed behind the curtain but not introduced until theyre forced. I think theyre going to suck up all that free ICE money on the way until regulations actually stop it.
Yeah, but at least as it pertains to Stellantis, hasn't that been the case for the past 5-7 years already (milking 13-year-old platforms for the Challenger and Charger)? As Tim K. already said, the regs are coming down hard already (and that was with Trump in charge!). It's the reason the TRX is one year only offering. With the big undeniable push for climate change from a new, green administration added with FCA merger demands to go EV, Stellantis is being pushed to a new EV-dominated reality. With Dodge having 0.0 hybrid (let alone EV) offerings and so far behind, I think it's 1971 all over again. The ICE band-aid will be ripped off quickly imo.

As for GM specifically, they are all-in on the EV train. They see what Tesla has done and want some of that action now. More than any other US carmaker they are positioned very well to take a big piece of that market in the very near future. Tesla can't compete on manufacturing or basic QC. GM and Tesla both know this. The faster GM can push forward (so as to take Tesla market share first) the better is the way they are likely thinking, especially with Ford not far behind.
 


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Slowpoke387

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#95
Yeah, but at least as it pertains to Stellantis hasn't that been the case for the past 5-7 years already (milking 13-year-old platforms for the Challenger and Charger)?
But sales have held surprisingly strong. That would certainly extend the life of an aging platform. Why stop unless forced into stopping? If you look back historically auto maker are normally forced by either poor sales, or safety/emissions regulations to make radical changes. If sales are brisk and theyre in compliance, theyre not going to stop milking the cash cow. If you knew your business was being forced to reorganize in 2 years, would it make any sense at all to throw away virtually free money until then? As long as youre not inhibiting the new product/business structure anyway...
Good debate either way.
 


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#96
As long as the Charger / Challenger are making money, I don't see Stellantis dumping them, but neither will they spend money on upgrading them in my opinion. They'll tack things on and make small changes, but if they're committed to short term electrification then just keep pushing the cart down the road until the replacement hybrid or all electric is ready.
 


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#97
But sales have held surprisingly strong. That would certainly extend the life of an aging platform. Why stop unless forced into stopping? If you look back historically auto maker are normally forced by either poor sales, or safety/emissions regulations to make radical changes. If sales are brisk and theyre in compliance, theyre not going to stop milking the cash cow. If you knew your business was being forced to reorganize in 2 years, would it make any sense at all to throw away virtually free money until then? As long as youre not inhibiting the new product/business structure anyway...
Good debate either way.
Excellent points. Actually, I think conceptually we are on the same page. The point we may diverge on is timing. Sure, keep milking the cow, but I guess I'm saying the cow may already be earmarked for steaks but we just don't know it yet.

I think new tightenings are likely coming much sooner than some might imagine given the US' clear shift back towards a global green economy. Given that, I'm expecting to see strong disincentives (CAFE tightening, California-style++ national emission standards) as it relates to doing things the old way (heavy carbon emitters, and yep, supercharged v8s are in that bin). I also think this will be simultaneously married with new corporate and consumer green incentives (subsidies, tax credits, carbon credits, etc). My bet is that both of these "carrots" and "sticks" are already in the pipeline but haven't been made "official" yet. Of course, it's too late for the 2021 production cycle but it would not surprise me if 2022 marks the last year we see a US production supercharged V8 car sold. There may be an exception or two based on projects close to completion (eg special one-off Corvette, etc). But even then, I'd bet that any hypothetical all-ICE new HP project would be released in 2022 or not at all.

Then again I could be completely wet. It wouldn't be the first time! :D
 


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1971demon

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#98
Took me a quick second but it is quite funny, 1971demon! The power of language and interpretation!
Are they on retainer like consultants or retained like restrained in Pulp Fiction?
1971demon...you so crazy!
Pay me no mind...for I am just an idiot...;););)
 


OP
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Pay me no mind...for I am just an idiot...;););)


But you wear it s.......


Oops, didn't that once already, cost me some dignity and a set of knee pads...



:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 


1971demon

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But you wear it s.......


Oops, didn't that once already, cost me some dignity and a set of knee pads...



:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
WTF...either you had a good day @ work today...or were the recipient of some serious affection last nite...:unsure::unsure:
 




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