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Gates green stripe blower belt

Unholy707

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#21
Just get an idler pulley
 


2ndgen

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#22
I'm glad you posted that because I am going to my installer Tuesday. I hope mine do not line up so I can send it back.
Why?
Otherwise the Blackbird tensioner is an excellent product. Better than the stock tensioner, better than the Litens design, and better than the ARS option.
My only concern is their pulley alignment and bearing selection. Plus their pulley is not as light as it could be.
I have a TBA pulley I'm going to try to make fit on their tensioner bracket with a shim to make it line up perfectly. The TBA pulley has nearly only half the weight.

SC grooved pulley weights:
262g TBA billet alum. (Metco is probably close to the TBA, similar design, also aluminum)
432g Blackbird billet steel
482g Litens billet steel
746g stock pulley (Dayco)

And for some napkin math:
HP needed to spin a 3" diameter 746g pulley up to 18k RPM in 0.5s is 2.5HP.
Thus with 3 stock pulleys it costs 7.5HP to spin up to WOT.

HP needed to spin a 3" diameter 262g pulley up to 18k RPM in 0.5s is 0.94HP.
Thus with 3 TBA pulleys it costs 2.8HP to spin up to WOT.

These calculations are ideal mass only, they don't account for bearing friction (full contact seals vs non-contact seals).

While a 5HP difference is in the noise when you're over 700 already, still it's certainly not nothing.
 


Unholy707

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#23
Why?
Otherwise the Blackbird tensioner is an excellent product. Better than the stock tensioner, better than the Litens design, and better than the ARS option.
My only concern is their pulley alignment and bearing selection. Plus their pulley is not as light as it could be.
I have a TBA pulley I'm going to try to make fit on their tensioner bracket with a shim to make it line up perfectly. The TBA pulley has nearly only half the weight.

SC grooved pulley weights:
262g TBA billet alum. (Metco is probably close to the TBA, similar design, also aluminum)
432g Blackbird billet steel
482g Litens billet steel
746g stock pulley (Dayco)

And for some napkin math:
HP needed to spin a 3" diameter 746g pulley up to 18k RPM in 0.5s is 2.5HP.
Thus with 3 stock pulleys it costs 7.5HP to spin up to WOT.

HP needed to spin a 3" diameter 262g pulley up to 18k RPM in 0.5s is 0.94HP.
Thus with 3 TBA pulleys it costs 2.8HP to spin up to WOT.

These calculations are ideal mass only, they don't account for bearing friction (full contact seals vs non-contact seals).

While a 5HP difference is in the noise when you're over 700 already, still it's certainly not nothing.
Doesn’t MMX or HHP make this same exact bracket?
 


Unholy707

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#24
I’ve also never been sold on tensioners. Still no replacement for belt wrap, which is what you really need
 


2ndgen

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#25
Doesn’t MMX or HHP make this same exact bracket?
There are two different parts:
- the bracket which mounts to the timing cover
- the tensioner that mounts to the bracket

The stock bracket only allows a single orientation of the tensioner.
Both HHP and Blackbird Performance offer a bracket that allows clocking the tensioner to multiple different positions.
HHP's bracket offers 5 positions.
Blackbird's bracket offers 7 I think, plus is modified such that more of them can be used. With HHPs, depending on which tensioner you have not all the positions will work due to clearance issues.

As for tensioners there exist these options:
- 3 different versions of the stock part number (the original version was by Dayco, dunno about the two newer, cheaper ones)
- ARS (which has no dampening)
- Litens
- Blackbird Perfomance

As for extra adjustable idlers there's a lot of options, I've not cataloged them.

Call up Geoff at Blackbird Performance--he's super knowledgeable. They did a /ton/ of testing when designing their tensioner.

The actual tension amount has little to do with the equation--more is not better--that just wears the belts and bearings faster.
Yes, belt wrap does matter.
However, most important is how well the spring and dampening tuning actually keep the belt in tension throughout all the possible RPM changes. Belt wrap can't help you if the bounce in the tensioner allows the belt to go slack on the pulley...
Eg, the ARS tensioner has no dampening at all--thus it can't possibly not be bouncing around and allowing the belt to go taught-slack-taught-slack as it settles...
 


Unholy707

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#26
I couldn’t barely go above 3000 rpm on my car with a 2.69 upper only. AAD idler fixed that, it would literally just slip. My idler is a bit maxed out right now, but that’s due to my belt size. My belt only has 1 k miles on it, maybe less and looks pretty worn. But zero slip or issues at track, dozens of passes
 


OP
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Thread Starter #27
I'm sending the blackbird back. It started making grinding type bearing noise above 1500 rpm.
 


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Thread Starter #28
I'm sending the blackbird back. It started making grinding type bearing noise above 1500 rpm.
 


Unholy707

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#29
I'm sending the blackbird back. It started making grinding type bearing noise above 1500 rpm.
That doesn’t sound good, are you sure it was secure all the way? Did you see any wobbling?
 


Unholy707

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#30
My AAD one has been flawless, 2.69 upper only revving the engine to above 6k
 


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Thread Starter #31
Yes, everything was locked down. Craig at Blackhawk was great to work with. They could not duplicate the noise and sent me a new unit and a couple of t-shirts for my trouble anyway. I have not re installed it yet...too hot to work. The Dayco 5100580SC is working great and I already have much less dust even with the stock tensioner.
 


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#32
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#33
I use these belts, they are made for supercharger use, they hold up well and I turn my superchargers pretty hard, used same one on my whipples as well when I was running them.

View attachment 162327 View attachment 162328 View attachment 162329
I tried to cross reference from gates k100572hd to fine the dayco supercharger belt to match that and with no luck....even put down the dimensions of the gates and still no luck....and by the way do you still port hellcat fuel rails if so im me the cost I have set that needs to be done. thanks
 


16GoManGoHC2

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#34
I tried to cross reference from gates k100572hd to fine the dayco supercharger belt to match that and with no luck....even put down the dimensions of the gates and still no luck....and by the way do you still port hellcat fuel rails if so im me the cost I have set that needs to be done. thanks
Hi Robert, yes, I still do fuel rails and make magnetic drain plugs as well. I’ll send you a direct message.
 




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