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GM Says Selling EVs Even At $30K Is A Hard Sell

Unholy707

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#21
I’m talking about e85 to keep the hellcat alive and compliant with emissions instead of getting rid of it completely to be replaced with electric. Learn how to read and not just what you want to see
 


Unholy707

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#22
I dunno. There aren't any EVs around here. Much like with E85.
But e85 could be there in your regular gas stations, the infrastructure already exists to make it possible, unlike EVs
 


Jimmy N.

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#23
But e85 could be there in your regular gas stations, the infrastructure already exists to make it possible, unlike EVs
Would you believe that gas stations are also somewhat few and far in between here?
This is an alligator free zone, remember?
 


Unholy707

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#24
Would you believe that gas stations are also somewhat few and far in between here?
This is an alligator free zone, remember?
You’re still not getting it. How many car chargers are out there? You can get 200 miles a tank on e85. This is about not killing off the hellcat for EV when they could have continued under e85 for emissions compliance. I guarantee you there’s a market for that, and it’s much simpler to use existing infrastructure for it. I’m not sure why you think mileage is so low on e85. It’s a myth. I drove my car 1200 miles on an e85 trip across the country, and that’s when e85 was much less prevalent than it is now
 


Unholy707

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#25
Bottom line, they could use existing infrastructure and add e85 pumps. They’re already converting a lot of the e15 pumps to full e85. This is more feasible than creating the charging infrastructure they want to do for EVs
 


Illegal_Demon

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#26
Just like supercharged V8s or luxury SUVs, there is a market but it will never be 100% of the market.
I'm fine with EVs.
I'm fine with people who want to have an EV as a daily.
And in time, I think 25% of the cars on the road will be EVs.

What I am not fine with, is that they are trying to outlaw gas cars completely.
The new Mercedes Benz makes almost 800hp but can go 30 or so miles on electric charge with a MPGe of 50!!!
Wrangler Rubicon 4xe gets 49MPGe

The 887hp 918 Porsche was able achieve 90MPGe

The technology exists to keep the fun cars around but also give them a little electric assistance.
And it would probably go a long way into getting people into the full EV experience.
When they realize they can run their Jeep every day by just plugging it in and not using the gas engine for a couple of weeks.

Instead you are getting a lot of push back. But again, when does Washington do anything right?
It's why when my wife wanted an EV I convinced her to get a plug in hybrid instead. 90% of her days 0 gas, but when she/we goes longer boom, you dont need a charging station. MPGe in the 200-400 range on average. Sadly, the Plug-ins are likely transitory and probabaly gone for full EV within the next 5 years or so.
 


Jimmy N.

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#27
You’re still not getting it. How many car chargers are out there? You can get 200 miles a tank on e85.
Unholy, I'm not going to let your PMS ruin my day, but there are no EV chargers here. Or stations with E85.

Those 200 miles would not work for me, anymore than an EV would. Actually, the one thing I really don't like about my 'Cat is its minuscule gas tank. It'd be a great long distance car, I think, but to put things in perspective...

My Ram 3500 came with 74 gallon fuel capacity. I recently added a 40-gallon auxiliary tank to it because that way I don't have to stop early, not knowing for sure that I'd make it the 100+ miles to the next station.

This general area is not, I repeat not, like living in a city with gas stations every block or two apart, where you can pick the brand or price you prefer.
 


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#28
Aside from the charging issues etc with EVs why would anyone buy a gas car that is guaranteed to need a new engine in 8 years?
Buying an EV is the same thing except batteries are even more expensive than engines.
I would not mind having a cheap EV 2nd car for just local driving as a beater that I can charge in the garage with a range of 85 miles. It would be kind of like doing your local shopping with a golf cart. But with the new price increases for electricity climbing as fast as they are and insurance being so expensive for them I really do not see any financial savings. And of course there is no such thing as a cheap EV for a beater.
Actually huge subsidies from FEDs and many states so EVs are probably as cheap as they ever will be...The sweet spot is the plug in hybrids. You wont get 85 mi but u can get 30....and then after that its STILL a hybrid not pure gas motor....NGL I think the wife's Niro is perfect for around town groceries, erands, short commutes, etc. We have probably put 10 tanks of gas in there in the last 2 years. Max...No special plugs, charges to full in about 6h (overnight, cheaper electricity) in the garage.

Performance EV? GTFO...but thats me, lol
 


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Unholy707

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#29
Unholy, I'm not going to let your PMS ruin my day, but there are no EV chargers here. Or stations with E85.

Those 200 miles would not work for me, anymore than an EV would. Actually, the one thing I really don't like about my 'Cat is its minuscule gas tank. It'd be a great long distance car, I think, but to put things in perspective...

My Ram 3500 came with 74 gallon fuel capacity. I recently added a 40-gallon auxiliary tank to it because that way I don't have to stop early, not knowing for sure that I'd make it the 100+ miles to the next station.

This general area is not, I repeat not, like living in a city with gas stations every block or two apart, where you can pick the brand or price you prefer.
I’m literally just talking about hellcats and how they could have let it live lol, you obviously are not. I wasn’t talking about trucks
 


Jimmy N.

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#30
I wasn’t talking about trucks
I know, but brought the 3500 up as an example of the distances I wan't to be able to drive, and the scarcity of gas stations.

So, if the Hellcat would've survived in E85 form, it'd basically be useless to me.
 


Unholy707

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#31
Unholy, I'm not going to let your PMS ruin my day, but there are no EV chargers here. Or stations with E85.

Those 200 miles would not work for me, anymore than an EV would. Actually, the one thing I really don't like about my 'Cat is its minuscule gas tank. It'd be a great long distance car, I think, but to put things in perspective...

My Ram 3500 came with 74 gallon fuel capacity. I recently added a 40-gallon auxiliary tank to it because that way I don't have to stop early, not knowing for sure that I'd make it the 100+ miles to the next station.

This general area is not, I repeat not, like living in a city with gas stations every block or two apart, where you can pick the brand or price you prefer.
I’m literally just talking about hellcats and how they could have let it live lol, you obviously are not. I wasn’t talking about trucks
I know, but brought the 3500 up as an example of the distances I wan't to be able to drive, and the scarcity of gas stations.

So, if the Hellcat would've survived in E85 form, it'd basically be useless to me.
but you’re saying it’s useless to you as it is lol you guys crack me up
 


Jimmy N.

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#32
but you’re saying it’s useless to you as it is lol you guys crack me up
No, never claimed that. Although a larger tank would be great.

An E85 version would be, though, since there aren't any stations with that stuff around here.But it would definitely be nicer to sit in a Hellcat and wait for help than in an EV.
 


Unholy707

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#33
No, never claimed that. Although a larger tank would be great.

An E85 version would be, though, since there aren't any stations with that stuff around here.But it would definitely be nicer to sit in a Hellcat and wait for help than in an EV.
There could be though, easily
 


Jimmy N.

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#34
Easily? Should I start asking around how many stations would be willing to switch one of their pumps over to E85?
And if I admit that it would be for one vehicle, I really think I know the answer.

Hell, I couldn't even get ethanol free 91 octane delivered here (I buy fuel in bulk) since the delivery vehicle didn't have a compartment for that. And I doubt that the tankers that deliver to the gas stations have them.
 


Unholy707

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#35
we get it, you live in the middle of nowhere, nearest gas station 500 miles away, roads covered in 6 ft of snow lol (just kidding?). Anyway, I digress. E85 is a great
 


Jimmy N.

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#36
Close, but not quite.

There is a gas station quite close to here, but I wouldn't even fill up your Challenger there.
 


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#37
Problem with EVs is the Electric grid cannot handle them. More and More states are closing down power plants and buying power from other states. Once those other states get to the point where they cannot export any more power because of all the EVs in that state, WHOOPS. Because of this reason alone, an EV is a poor choice right now.
 


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#38
Problem with EVs is the Electric grid cannot handle them. More and More states are closing down power plants and buying power from other states. Once those other states get to the point where they cannot export any more power because of all the EVs in that state, WHOOPS. Because of this reason alone, an EV is a poor choice right now.
Phacking endless !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 


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#39
I don't know if this is accurate because I was in school and not in the car market and when I did enter the market it was NOT for a foreign car but didn't foreign manufacturers in the 80 regularly get 35-40 mpg??? Seems to me like the more we try to get better mpg we've just gone backwards, everyone celebrated 30 as being awesome??
My brother had a used early 80s Toyota in the mid 90s, it was a piece of crap by that time, he got like 40++mpg and hated to junk it when it finally died. What went wrong and how did it get so screwed up?
 


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#40
I don't know if this is accurate because I was in school and not in the car market and when I did enter the market it was NOT for a foreign car but didn't foreign manufacturers in the 80 regularly get 35-40 mpg??? Seems to me like the more we try to get better mpg we've just gone backwards, everyone celebrated 30 as being awesome??
My brother had a used early 80s Toyota in the mid 90s, it was a piece of crap by that time, he got like 40++mpg and hated to junk it when it finally died. What went wrong and how did it get so screwed up?
Yep..from a wiki post...

1981 Toyota Starlet....

"Fuel economy in '81 was rated at 38 city, 52 highway. Later models got as much as 54 MPG highway! (That's what low-horsepower, low-weight will do for cars' economy!) Early Starlets came with a five-speed transmission, later changing to a four-speed manual transmission."
 




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